New sign planned for Llandaff/Llandaf after language debate

March 25, 2011 3 Comments »
New sign planned for Llandaff/Llandaf after language debate

llandaff sign

Plans for new signs welcoming visitors to Llandaff have been developed with two spellings of the place name – after a previous sign with just the English spelling was shelved.

The blueprint settled on at a meeting will mean they would read in English: “City of Llandaff, city within a city.” In Welsh they would say: “Dinas Llandaf, dinas o fewn dinas.”

The plans were hammered out between the Llandaff Society, Cardiff council and the Welsh Language Board at County Hall this week.

They got together after 16 complaints from Welsh speakers insisting there should only be one “f” in Llandaff led to the removal of the new signs last week, just days after they were unveiled.

Chairman of the Llandaff Society Geoff Barton-Greenwood said: “I think it is a reasonable compromise.

“But it’s all a question of whether they will make the right impact when they are manufactured because there is more wording.

“When you’re driving at 30mph it could take more than a cursory effort to read.”

Retired Bangor University professor and Welsh place names expert Hywel Wyn Owen was consulted over the matter.

But the proposal could yet be vetoed by the Llandaff Society at their meeting today.

Mr Barton-Greenwood said: “I should imagine there will be some vociferous (discussion) because they will be offended the protesters managed to get them down.”

He said the cost of new signs – originally paid for by a £2,000 donation from the BBC – will be covered by the council.

He was adamant Llandaff should be spelt with two Fs.

He said: “Llandaff with two Fs has been in use for 400 years and is equally correct.”

Owen Saer was one of those who complained about the signs.

He thought ideally the sign should feature just one “f”.

He added: “If you really want to have it in two languages that is more acceptable than in just the English version.”

Cardiff council called the meeting “productive”.

A spokesman said: “The revised layout addresses all the issues that have been heard such as the different spellings.”

The signs will be returned to their original place, even though some residents felt their siting excluded them from Llandaff.

Jenny Barton-Greenwood, a committee member of the Llandaff Society, with one of the signs, which have since been removed after complaints from Welsh speakers

What do you think about the decision? Let us know your views in the comments below

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  1. Richard May 31, 2011 at 7:08 pm - Reply

    I don't understand, surely if it's Llandaff as in daffodill it must have 2 f's in Welsh otherwise it would be Llandav wouldn't it.
    I complained to the council when the signs went missing, I thought they'd been stolen

  2. Fran June 16, 2011 at 10:01 am - Reply

    Richard, "Llandav" is how it's said in Welsh, much in the same way that Bro Taf is pronounced "Bro Tav".

  3. Skull Cruncha June 17, 2011 at 3:24 pm - Reply

    I don't understand why the spelling can't just be 'Llandaf' as that would accommodate the anglicised pronounciation of 'LlandaFF' and the Welsh pronounciation of 'LlandaV'.

    I think the main issue here is the widespread ignorance of Welsh pronounciation amongst the anglicised monoglot population in Cardiff (and before you start, I am not a Welsh speaker!). Richard's comments are exemplary of this. The worst example of such ignorance is the pronounciation of 'Llan' as 'Lan', which I find pathetic and disgraceful.

    This begs the question: why can't we all pronounce it as 'LlandaV' and spell it as 'Llandaf'?

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